In the ensemble’s own words, ‘Creeps from the Middle East is a black and white, non-monetized, relatively unscripted comedy show created by Susan Lanting, Steven Bos and Sina Khani.’ For me, the initial reaction found it all to be a very bizarre, experimental take on the ‘absurd’; an art/ comic project that oozes ideas, and creativity, but most importantly, wears its pitch-black humor and surrealism as a badge of honour. Obviously, I’m in.
At the center of all this more often than not, it’s the infectious (infamous?) ‘anti’ comedian Sina Khani. Khani is a German-Iranian artist, filmmaker, and comic who revels in self-deprecation, and narcissism of the best kind and subsequently enjoys talking about himself at length. He reminds me so much of myself I can barely take it. However, that being the case, to his credit, Sina does speak the very opposite of banality. In this extensive and very funny conversation, Sina and I discuss blacklisting, how CREEPS began, his personal and working relationship with Keeping it Real Art Critics (KIRAC), love lives, Woody Allen, and his longing to go ‘Full Meta Jacket’… and lots more. The old overused adage ‘Enfant Terrible’ comes to mind and I hope you embrace it and Sina Khani himself, as I certainly am.
Sorry to start on a negative note, Sina. But I understand you were recently assaulted. What happened?
I was walking home after a very nice and productive studio session with bassist Fatima Camara. She is making the soundtrack of my upcoming short “Everybody hates Sina”. I was on the phone with my friend Barbara in Palermo, just chitchatting the night away, when I was in a dark little side street in Berlin Kreuzberg and got attacked by three creeps from the Middle East. Two held me from the back. One punched me in the face. Classy. They were not pro. But impulsive. It was a matter of seconds. I pushed the guy in the front when, and now this is interesting: the guy in the back dry-humped me. Twice. This is where I switched into a different mode. I started to fistfight and got knocked out. I lost. I’m still in pain.
And after that?
When I came back to consciousness they were gone. But I mean rape? Come on. I get the robbery part. We were doing this kind of stuff too in the 90s. But sexual assault is a different level. I think it’s imported from Syria. That’s racist but I’m allowed to do that. No, I don’t even know where they were from. But I’m here to promote the Middle East. They were then gone and I was bleeding. So, I thought, let me call the cops and let them hunt them down. Which is the point when I realized that they had taken my phone. Anyways.
I’ve read on social media you describe yourself firstly as a comedian.
I never try to be funny and I never try to make comedy. But everything I do ends up becoming comical. Also in my real life. I’m pretty sure I will die laughing one day. There are no good contemporary comedy films in this world that contain somewhat of an artistic value. Look at Sacha Baron Cohen, Ricky Gervais, Ben Stiller, Christopher Guest, Mike Myers, Louis CK, Judd Apatow, Kevin Smith… This list of losers is long. The last one who did that successfully and consequently was Woody Allen. And he quit that too 20 years ago. But I don’t feel like talking about other comedians. It upsets me. Let’s talk about me!
In time. Who are Steven Bos & Susan Lanting and what do they bring to productions on your ‘Creeps From The Middle East’?
Susan and Steven are lifelong buddies and each represents 33.33% of Creeps. We are all very different people. To talk in dead composers terms: Steven is a Wunderkind, a virtuoso. Skillful and eccentric, like Mozart or Jesus. Susan knows everything, sees everything, has the strongest intuition. She’s God. She’s Bach. The showrunner, if you will. And I’m a piece of shit human being who is always in some kind of stupid trouble and who is mortal as fuck. I’m obviously Beethoven in this constellation. Plus, I’m a bad listener, too. We three are the core of Creeps. The rest is our network which contains hundreds of people like yourself, Mr. Jackson. Love your name.
Thanks. Likewise. How did Creeps begin/ how did you make it happen?
I had the idea to make a short film about racists who are racist towards people of their own race. Because that’s where racism becomes interesting. When it’s based on self-hatred. For example, it’s easy for a German bus driver to hate Syrian refugees. But also, it’s boring, simple and conservative. And too obvious. Now, when a Lebanese fella from Beirut hates another Lebanese fella from Tripoli inside the same Berlin bus… that’s where things become juicy. It‘s like looking up the word ”dictionary” in a dictionary. It starts to live.
Why is that?
I don’t know. I guess it’s often political. And this was the idea I had in the back of my mind when I stumbled upon Tarik Sadouma, who is the enfant terrible of the Amsterdam art scene. I imagined an improvised dialogue between an Arab pimp and a depressed, good-looking Persian dude smoking a cigarette. That’s literally all I had. Sadouma gave me a doubtful “maybe” about the project. He invited me to a pro-Russian NYE party in Amsterdam. I live in Berlin but I took the chance and went all the way to a random place where I ended up drunk as fuck and talking to a 10-year-old autistic kid all night, because everyone else bothered me – nothing weird.
The day after, Sadouma showed up and we filmed the meta speed dating scene. I was very exhausted and hungover but Steven insisted on filming more. Straightaway. So we called the first people that came into mind. That is Gover Meit, who has risen to stardom with his alter ego Stefano Keizers and is a Dutch national treasure now. Sohrab Bayat, an old buddy and a great actor. He played in Kaweh Modiri‘s magnum opus Bodkin Ras, which is filmed in your cute little Scottish highlands by the way. In a town called Forres. Check the trailer on YouTube. And to bring the film to a worthy end, we decided to work with Khadija El Massaoudi who fitted the BBQ scene just perfectly. With her power and charisma. As opposed to the neurotic and depressed person that I portray. It all went so smoothly and well, that Susan came up with the idea to turn into a series. The rest is film history.
Ray, what do you think about the title “Creeps From The Middle East”? Sadouma came up with it. Say what you want about this guy, but he’s sure sharp as fuck. And pretty persistent on getting credits for the name.
It’s a funny title and very on the edge, which I love and initially caught my interest. Was it difficult to get people to be involved and help produce given you say it’s not monetized? Is it a goal of yours to monetize Creeps in the future?
Not at all. I like to work with people who dig the project and support it blindly. If someone asks me if there is a budget, I know this is someone I don’t want to work with. And by the way the non-monetized thing gets misinterpreted all the time. It only refers to YouTube and that it is ad-free. We have paid everything ourselves until now. But I’m starting to ask for donations and sponsors. It’s ridiculous how much money and time we invest in this project.
What were you doing prior- did you still write or perform as a comedian? Stand-up live comedy or scriptwriting?
I did stand up until I got blacklisted in Germany. You haven’t heard about the scandal? Do your homework, man. I’m not here to present to you my portfolio. I’m here to answer questions about my work. Joking! I know I’m a nobody. I’m niche famous. Or a niche loser if you will. Well, they booed me off stage at Germany’s biggest comedy venue, the Quatsch Comedy Club after I did a version of an old nasty Vaudeville joke. Paul Provenza, the director of the 2005 docu The Aristocrats shared it on his Twitter. So my bit went viral and got me into trouble.
I love that documentary and I love/ hate that joke. Robin Wiliams did a version about a piano player who goes for an audition, it’s in the documentary, check it out. Tell me about the new book you’re writing
I prefer not to, because I generally don’t like to talk about unfinished projects. But I also want to be a nice interviewee and feed you with news, so I give you a little something. The working title is “A few months in my life”, and it’s mostly focused on name-dropping interesting people who play a role in my life. Like Florentina Holzinger, Hans Teeuwen, Donny Ronny, Mohsen Namjoo and the Queen of Dutch Theater Adelheid Roosen who plays my mom in episode 2. You are in it, too. But you have to wait until I publish it. If ever. Let’s see, it’s more of a book that I write solely for myself.
I mentioned KIRAC earlier and have to confess, I began being interested with them and indeed following their movements after the situation and court case with Michel Houllebecq (who I consider the greatest living author). They then lead me to yourself.
Oh KIRAC. Do we have to do this? Keeping it motherfucking cocksucking real art critics. That’s a Hans Teeuwen quote that we use in the forthcoming Creeps. I love KIRAC. I watched the very first episode when it had less than 20 views on YouTube, seven or eight years ago. I’m a big fan. But I stopped being a Patreon after they blocked me on social media and WhatsApp. We had a tiny little outfall some time ago but then decided to keep things friendly. I actually just helped KIRAC out yesterday by providing them with an important contact. But we still haven‘t re-followed each other on Instagram.
How did you become connected with KIRAC and what kind of collaboration do you have outside of their input into Creeps?
The KIRAC gang and I have the same mentor: Frans Oosterhof. The brain of the Amsterdam art scene. The underrated prophet. The cult leader without an entourage. An initiator of mayhem. An incapable artist who gives his life and his sanity in order to teach. He mentored the shit out of us at the Rietveld Academy while ALL other classes and students were complaining about the art school being too vague and too ambiguous. Frans Oosterhof on the other hand, made art school physical. He might be niche as well, but you can’t deny his impact on many influential artists. He drilled into his student’s hearts and let us bleed publicly and made us want to impress him. He had the highest suicidal rate among his students. But also the highest rate of successful artists. That’s what Stefan Ruitenbeek has done until today. Fixing his daddy issues by impressing Oosterhof. And Michel Houellebecq. That’s KIRAC in a nutshell.
What’s your relationship with Tarik Sadouma?
Dude, you’re obsessed with the whole KIRAC thing. While I sometimes try to not get too close to them. There are days when I regret that they’re mentioned in The Tears of Sina Khani. Because it was supposed to be an homage that then got misinterpreted as a parody and a diss. And that hurts. Reminds me of my ex Pooyan, who episode 3 of Creeps is based on. She never believed me when I told her that I loved her. I’m grumpy today. It’s the worst possible moment for an interview. But I like your magazine and I do my best to please you somehow.
Thank you.
I cried this morning about a letter I got from an old friend. And I never cry. But anyways, I love Tarik Sadouma. He’s smart and funny. He reminds me a lot of Eric Cartman. Actually, everything about him is South Park. Our relationship is mostly based on making stupid jokes. Sometimes very brutal and nasty ones. I don’t have to go on eggshells with him, which makes him very dear to me. I adore people I can have a laugh with. We had a few ups and downs in the past.
Like what?
Sometimes I write really horrible jokes and send them to him on Whatsapp. And he takes screenshots and shares them without asking me. And that brings me into trouble. People don’t realize the humoristic nature and ironic context of them. So I prefer to call him on the phone. And I always make sure that I’m not on loudspeaker and that he doesn’t record the conversations. It’s an interesting dynamic. A pretty unique and at times horrendous form of friendship. I’m the parasite of the Amsterdam art scene, according to his teammates Ruth Spetter and Maria van der Velde. But that’s bullshit. I’m a good guy. A sweetheart. An angel on Earth. A cute little harmless Samaritan. But you should ask Sadouma yourself. I can give you his number. He is approachable and likes attention. Just like me. He’s actually a great fucking guy and I love him. And you’re a good person too so I think it’s a nice match. I’ll send you his number and put in a good word for you.
Please do. A chat with Sadouma would be a fitting follow-up to this. Right onto more pressing things. What is going on with Michiel Lieuwma? He says you published content involving him without final consultation. Give me your take on the situation.
I prefer not to speak out my interpretation of the situation but merely rely on some facts if you don’t mind. I hope you can puzzle it all together. It’s simple. I got interviewed by Michiel Lieuwma for the Open Geesten podcast. During this interview, I gave him a T-shirt as a gift. Afterwards, we filmed an improvised scene for Creeps. In this shot I slapped his butt and he was fine with it and even approved to film it again from a different angle. I have him giving consent on tape and we filmed it twice. Therefore, you can see two different perspectives of the ass smack, one in the trailer, the other in the episode. It was a good shoot and he seemed happy. I told him that I will show him this footage before releasing it and I forgot. I simply forgot and I am sorry for that. Then he took the video from YouTube and Spotify. But the statement he published about why he did it contains some untrue stuff, which makes you believe that there are other reasons why he did that.
Like what?
Well, I never claimed to be ethical in absolute terms, but only as compared to the way KIRAC operated with Michel Houellebecq and Sid Lukassen. I like to treat my actors with the highest amount of respect. He writes in his statement that he has informed the directors of Creeps about the decision to take the video offline, which is untrue. I was never informed and I am one of the directors. He claims I “bombarded and threatened him to make all of this public”. It was not a threat. He is the one who made this public. I just told some people what really happened, like I am doing now. But what I think is very funny is that he uses the T-shirt as an argument. That cracks me up. I know this is all very niche, but I needed to clear my throat once. By the way, you can buy the infamous T-shirt on our website. Haha.
I’ll share a link for all good patreons! Do you regret it?
Well, as I said. I am sorry about not sharing the footage before releasing it, and I herewith apologize again publicly. There are no hard feelings from my side. And I wish him the best of luck with his podcast and I’m open to talk to him about this and other matters. Anyways, let’s talk about something else. About good things. Like women.
What is real in this episode?
Well, the car scene is very much inspired by a real time event. In real life, I had stored some paintings at my girlfriend’s place. I used to paint at that time. Then we broke up. I moved out and a few months passed. Then somebody wanted to buy two paintings of mine that were in her basement. So, I texted my ex and said that I need them and she replied, and here comes the brutality of life, that her new boyfriend will come and bring them to my house. And if I’m not home she will dump them in the garbage. I didn’t even know she had a new guy. And now he is running errands for her. She must be pregnant. I thought what a Kant she was. I could have picked them up myself. She doesn’t need to send a dude. So, I quickly stalked her Instagram and found out who the new guy is. An amateur actor who presents himself as a professional one. Just the worst type of cultural catfish on a dating app. I Googled him and hardly found anything, but what I saw was of such ridiculously low quality that I was embarrassed for my ex. Despite my anger.
What do you mean? What kind of actor is he?
Just the most average, mediocre, 30ish-year-old Bavarian wannabe actor type you can imagine. A couple of short films about nothingness. The type of films that have neither a beginning or an end. Or a middle part. That is just about a certain atmosphere. Usually dark and mysterious but so badly shot and acted out that it’s just lame and cryptic. First year art student stuff. Very very vague. I googled harder and, of course, I found some very mediocre theater work. Of course. Just some kids playing so-called modern versions of Shakespeare dramas. Which means they dress up funny and wear make up and scream at each other in the park and film that with go pros. But it’s worse than how I am describing it. Having said that, I didn’t want to be bitter about this in the film as I was in real life, so we let Carmel Loukas play him, who is a hot, young, Israeli model and actor, accompanied by good old friend and hottie Carien Yatsiv as my ex.
Sina, you talk about meta elements in every Creeps film – can you expand on what you mean by that?
It is rarely a deliberate choice to go meta all the way. Full Meta jacket. Haha. Because meta filmmaking or storytelling is by its nature dull. Either if you break the fourth wall to include the audience, or reveal the construction of the story, or the role of the creators, or the relationship between fiction and reality, or to reflect on the fucking conventions of film. Or even just for comedic effect. Godard has milked it already. The cow is empty. But! Going Full Meta Jacket is as silly as not doing so. Because when you watch a film or a series you always know that you’re watching a made-up product, right? Except maybe in those very tense moments when you’re anxious or scared about what’s going to happen, which is a genre of film that is absolutely not in my interest to create. So I think, if it helps the merit to talk to the camera or see the director saying “Action” or see the clapboard or stop the narrative and talk about an actress that didn’t show up to the shoot, then why not? Let’s all take a chill pill here. It’s just comedy. Everything goes and there are no rules.
What happened with the actress not showing and how did you quickly find a replacement?
Well, it’s funny how it started. Have you ever seen a woman somewhere that you don’t know personally and you think to yourself this is the most beautiful person in the world? And that you immediately believe she is the one, just by her looks? You’re like, I don’t even care about her personality or her views on the world, I just want to marry her and move with her into a tiny cottage in the countryside and lock us up and just stare at her 24/7 and do nothing else. It’s more than just sexual. It’s possessive! This happened to me with this actress. I was at the Four Roses bar in Berlin, and she was just standing there, with her Gin & Tonic in her hand, alone. I went up to her and did some hard-hitting, which I rarely do because I prefer to be the prey, not the hunter. Anyways, it worked. Her name is Nina. We got in touch and had a fun time together. I met a friend a few days later and I told him about her and how smitten I am and I showed him pictures of her. You know what he said?
Go on.
He said: “Meh.” I was shocked. What kind of reaction is that to the most astonishing woman in the world? A flippin’ goddess, sent from Heaven to ruin my life. But then he said something that hit me bad. He said: “You only like her because she looks like you.” It was true! I had a crush on her because she looked exactly like me.
It sounds like textbook narcissism. What happened then?
Exactly. I realized that was the most narcissistic real-life rom-com moment ever. And I was writing a sister scene at the moment, so it was an obvious choice to cast her. But she didn’t show up to the shoot and canceled like an hour before, while we had set everything up already. Locations, cameras, light, sound, costumes, makeup, extras, Grace, the dog, props, sandwiches, fruits, m&m’s, and proseccos for the wrap party. The full program. So I called her a Kant on camera and blocked her from my life. Artistic revenge. Do you find that unethical?
Somewhat, more out of order with the verbal abuse.
I think it would be unethical if I gave out her full name.
Hah! So what’s her full name?
Nina Jiadze. Haha. OK, now I’m an unethical cunt. Well, at least I show up to my appointments. There is nothing more unprofessional in the film business than being late to a shoot or not showing up. I’m still mad about it.
In ep 2.2 you talk about Werner Herzog. In the next scene, we hear a Werner Herzog impression narrating the action. Explain!
That was Steven Bos’ idea, I think. Definitely not mine. You have to ask him. I can give you his number. By the way, I think this is a good moment to point out that I am only a fraction of Creeps and everything I do or say does not reflect the opinions of the other members. I don’t want to bring other people into trouble for my shenanigans. But inadvertently I do sometimes. I do and say plenty of shit on a daily basis. I need help.
Do you really have a sister?
No. Unfortunately, not. But that has always been my biggest dream. I have loved the idea of having a sister since I was a kid. Until now. But now I have the chance to have a sister in my film life. And we chose Astrid de Swart, who does a great job, I think.
So why did you kill her off the show?
Good question. I just love Game of Thrones, I guess. And how they just kill off characters whenever they feel like it, which is a nice way of empowering your writers. I think GOT was a big milestone for all writers in the world. And killing Nina was a secret shoutout to George R. R. Martin and writing an sich. Ein Spielchen Nebenbei, as my film dad Philip van den Hurk would say. The same way the bath tub scene in episode 3 is a shoutout to Gummo by Harmony Korine.
That’s very sad. You wanted a sister your whole life and once you got one in your film, she dies after two episodes.
Well, in the episode we are working on at the moment I get to meet my biological father for the first time after 40 years. And who knows? Maybe he has some kids in the show, which would be my half-siblings. And maybe my sister didn’t have a peanut allergy and is still alive. Maybe one of my mothers (I have two mom’s in the show and I’m adopted) dates someone who has kids and provides me with a hot step-sister. Who knows? These are just some thoughts in my head for future episodes. I shouldn’t brainstorm publicly.
Are you referring to Joker with the stair dance?
Yes, obviously. Joaquin and especially River Phoenix have been inspiring my acting since I can remember. But I do think the dancing scene in Joker is overrated. Not because of Joaquin but because of Michael Arnold, the choreographer. I hate him.
What else did he do?
He’s big in Hollywood. He did a lot of Scorsese dance stuff. Like Wolf of Wall Street and Irishman. But also the famous dance in Orange Is the New Black. And Licorice Pizza. Killers of the Flower Moon too, I think. All productions that are not famous for the choreography per se. It’s a weird fucking industry. You know how Michael Arnold makes his actual money? He’s an intimacy coordinator. I guess that says a lot. Anyways, let’s not go too niche. How often have I said ‘niche’ today?
I can’t recall. Don’t beat yourself up about it. Coordinator of intimacy… I could use a few lessons. One last thing. I really loved the songs you use in your films. They sound so familiar, yet I didn’t know them. So I figured it was by a band called Telephone, but I couldn’t find anything online.
I’m glad you asked that because we are very happy with the music. The singer of Telephone is the mother of one of my friends. And once, very randomly, he told me that his mom used to have a band in the 1960s in Amsterdam and that they even opened for the Rolling Stones once. He played some tracks for me and I fell instantly in love with the music. So let’s dedicate this interview to the band. You rock, Beatrix Boelen! And we collectively love you.
Sina, thank you for your time, honesty, and for being a tremendous interviewee. But as Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction says, “Let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks quite yet.”
Sina Khani and his ongoing shenanigans can be followed via his Instagram
Photos by Charlotte Kunstmann, Toilet Army and Susan Lanting
CREEPS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST CAN BE VIEWED ON YOUTUBE
https://creepsfromthemiddleeast.com/
